Comments on: Exclusivity of Scouts http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts Campfire Lore for All Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:12:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: A Scout’s Campfire » Boy Scouts - Duty to God Resourse http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts#comment-23 A Scout’s Campfire » Boy Scouts - Duty to God Resourse Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:54:53 +0000 http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts/#comment-23 [...] OK, maybe it is my background with a Masters of Divinity. Maybe it is a special alignment of stars. Who knows why, but the Duty to God portion of the Scout Oath and Law have been weighing heavily on my mind. Our district Roundtable this month featured a presentation on “Duty to God”. Since my post on the “Exclusivity of Scouts“, I have considered the National Boy Scouts of America stance on religion and homosexuality. While I wish BSA took a position more in keeping with the World Organization of the Scout Movement, they do not. [...] [...] OK, maybe it is my background with a Masters of Divinity. Maybe it is a special alignment of stars. Who knows why, but the Duty to God portion of the Scout Oath and Law have been weighing heavily on my mind. Our district Roundtable this month featured a presentation on “Duty to God”. Since my post on the “Exclusivity of Scouts“, I have considered the National Boy Scouts of America stance on religion and homosexuality. While I wish BSA took a position more in keeping with the World Organization of the Scout Movement, they do not. [...]

]]> By: wunder http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts#comment-18 wunder Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:36:14 +0000 http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts/#comment-18 I agree that most units, mine included, can do a lot more with the twelfth point. BSA has actually made that harder by focusing on the endpoint instead of the journey. BSA requires a specific kind of belief, which can be an obstacle to boys developing their faith. And that requirement is impossible to meet for some long-time units (Buddhists). It is a mess. WOSM uses the following approach, which is more likely to work than telling people what to believe. 1. Enable young people to experience spirituality through Scout activities 2. Make time for young people to discover and express the meaning of life 3. Help each individual to identify with his or her spiritual and religious heritage 4. Encourage internalisation and personal commitment 5. Develop open and respectful attitudes Like any good Scouting program, this uses participating in new experience, the boy's initiative, and adult models to build character. It is both good Scouting and good theology. BSA units are free to use the WOSM approach to enrich their program as long as they also adhere to the BSA Declaration of Religious Principle. I agree that most units, mine included, can do a lot more with the twelfth point. BSA has actually made that harder by focusing on the endpoint instead of the journey.

BSA requires a specific kind of belief, which can be an obstacle to boys developing their faith. And that requirement is impossible to meet for some long-time units (Buddhists). It is a mess.

WOSM uses the following approach, which is more likely to work than telling people what to believe.

1. Enable young people to experience spirituality through Scout activities

2. Make time for young people to discover and express the meaning of life

3. Help each individual to identify with his or her spiritual and religious heritage

4. Encourage internalisation and personal commitment

5. Develop open and respectful attitudes

Like any good Scouting program, this uses participating in new experience, the boy’s initiative, and adult models to build character. It is both good Scouting and good theology.

BSA units are free to use the WOSM approach to enrich their program as long as they also adhere to the BSA Declaration of Religious Principle.

]]> By: spryken http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts#comment-16 spryken Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:53:30 +0000 http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts/#comment-16 Walter, Thanks for your comments. I agree that the BSA's concept of Duty to God is restrictive. However, they have expanded on it. It is a slow process. What really got me going, was the perceived effort on the part of a few to remove the spiritual aspect completely. Duty to God has been and should continue to be an integral part to scouting. Different cultures and different religions interpret God differently, but the spiritual duty is still there. Ken Walter,

Thanks for your comments. I agree that the BSA’s concept of Duty to God is restrictive. However, they have expanded on it. It is a slow process.

What really got me going, was the perceived effort on the part of a few to remove the spiritual aspect completely. Duty to God has been and should continue to be an integral part to scouting. Different cultures and different religions interpret God differently, but the spiritual duty is still there.

Ken

]]> By: Bobster http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts#comment-15 Bobster Wed, 06 Dec 2006 21:54:03 +0000 http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts/#comment-15 In response to Walter's comment, and the post in general, I have to say that this is what my wife would call "A sticky wicket" of a situation. But that of course depends on your viewpoint. Personally I believe the BSA has clearly stated and expressed it's viewpoint. If in someone's opinion the viewpoint is too narrow, or for that matter too broad, it is moot. The BSA has always, since it's inception, supported this stated view. It never dissembled or tried to hide it. It has in fact broadened it over the years already. Anyone that joins the organization will be made aware of it by reading the various manuals and materials provided to new and prospective members. Narrow or not, and I think it is actually rather broad in scope myself, it is what it is, and no one forces anyone to join the organization. If you don't like the groups stated policies you are free to work within the organization to attempt to change them. Or, start a new organization with principles more to your own liking. After all that's what has happened, and is still happening to the "Christian" faith, as well as most other faiths. Continued fracturing based on non acceptance of the principles or practices of the parent body. Sooner or later everyone will be the sole member of their own faith and their own version of the BSA. Cheers, Robert Porter In response to Walter’s comment, and the post in general, I have to say that this is what my wife would call “A sticky wicket” of a situation.

But that of course depends on your viewpoint. Personally I believe the BSA has clearly stated and expressed it’s viewpoint. If in someone’s opinion the viewpoint is too narrow, or for that matter too broad, it is moot.

The BSA has always, since it’s inception, supported this stated view. It never dissembled or tried to hide it. It has in fact broadened it over the years already. Anyone that joins the organization will be made aware of it by reading the various manuals and materials provided to new and prospective members.

Narrow or not, and I think it is actually rather broad in scope myself, it is what it is, and no one forces anyone to join the organization. If you don’t like the groups stated policies you are free to work within the organization to attempt to change them.

Or, start a new organization with principles more to your own liking. After all that’s what has happened, and is still happening to the “Christian” faith, as well as most other faiths.

Continued fracturing based on non acceptance of the principles or practices of the parent body. Sooner or later everyone will be the sole member of their own faith and their own version of the BSA.

Cheers,

Robert Porter

]]> By: wunder http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts#comment-14 wunder Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:55:37 +0000 http://www.scoutcampfire.com/2006/12/04/exclusivity-of-scouts/#comment-14 Many Buddhists do not believe in god, which makes them atheists regardless of how devout they are. One of our local troops is chartered at a Buddhist temple. That troop has a long, proud history, with many Eagle Scouts. Worldwide, Scouting includes many people who are not monotheists or even theists. The constituiton of the world movement (WOSM) has an excellent and flexible definition of Duty to God, "Adherence to spiritual principles, loyalty to the religion that expresses them and acceptance of the duties resulting therefrom." The WOSM web site has a good Q&A on this: http://www.scout.org/en/information_events/resource_centre/library/the_leader_s_questions/spiritual_dimension Even in Christian faiths, it is normal to doubt and struggle with your belief in God. "Who never doubted, never half believed," as Philip James Bailey observed. The WOSM Q&A also talks about Scouts maturing in their beliefs. The BSA is short-sighted and parochial for using a narrower definition than WOSM. Walter Underwood, Scoutmaster, Troop 14 Many Buddhists do not believe in god, which makes them atheists regardless of how devout they are. One of our local troops is chartered at a Buddhist temple. That troop has a long, proud history, with many Eagle Scouts.

Worldwide, Scouting includes many people who are not monotheists or even theists. The constituiton of the world movement (WOSM) has an excellent and flexible definition of Duty to God, “Adherence to spiritual principles, loyalty to the religion that expresses them and acceptance of the duties resulting therefrom.”

The WOSM web site has a good Q&A on this: http://www.scout.org/en/information_events/resource_centre/library/the_leader_s_questions/spiritual_dimension

Even in Christian faiths, it is normal to doubt and struggle with your belief in God. “Who never doubted, never half believed,” as Philip James Bailey observed. The WOSM Q&A also talks about Scouts maturing in their beliefs.

The BSA is short-sighted and parochial for using a narrower definition than WOSM.

Walter Underwood, Scoutmaster, Troop 14

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